Present:
Cara (England)
Stefan (Germany)
Rinne, (Germany)
Tim, (Spain)
Alan (Norway)
Massimo, (Italy/ Spain)
Lee, (US)
Claudi, (Germany)
Hattie (UK)
Chris Element (via Skype) in Switzerland
Tessa (UK)
Why are we meeting ?
Stefan: After last Nowhere we started a discussion about how we can green nowhere. One starting point was power. Other point which came up were travelling to/from, waste and waste water, fresh water (how to avoid the masses of plastic bottles),... Burning Man holds Leaving No Trace important and we want to think about extending that to leaving no carbon trace so to work out how to make Nowhere sustainable.
We want to find solutions which make sense for Nowhere, bearing in mind it’s only a week or so long. So finding on going projects, year round, would make more sense, so for example, solar panels that would be used year round will be ideal.
HOW SHALL WE ADDRESS GREENING POWER NEEDS?
Alan: Peak power is in the middle of the night except for during build. We have simple power needs that need to be organised and handled in a flexible way.
Massimo: says can we create a formal association in Spain to aim at getting funds. They have a green power company in Spain called Electricdad de Cantabria. We should contact them
Action Point: Massimo to contact them to see if they are interested in sponsorship of our efforts
Claudi: We are exploring viability of all options and I have investigated extensively the possible EU grants which might be available to us.
Tess: Interested in sustaining the impact of Nowhere on local Spanish community by doing activities year round; giving the festival a long term presence in the community.
The Burrow set up a not for profit account over a year ago for Nowhere related activities. In order to apply for many EU grants, you need an account which has been in existence for over a year. We could possibly use this to apply for funds.
Lee: one option we’ve done in our Burning Man camp is have a 50kw generator that only runs during high energy needs. We have a couple of silent generators (NOTE from Stefan: about 4x 2kW) that run during the low energy times at spots were power is needed. We want to find out ways to use sustainable energy too, but our generator is an option for reducing power useage by not running one constantly.
Alan: I’d like to explore a hybrid system with multiple inputs (NOTE from Stefan: for 230V, 12V, 24V to use generators, solar, wind power as input to power a battery bank which can be used to power 12V and 230V systems when needed) – could cost a thousand ish pounds. If we focus on building up battery power, we can be flexible about what means we find of charging the batteries. Wecould plug all sources into it and trip charge the generator so it only goes blue at 80% as we don’t need all the capacity
Stefan: we used 15kw at peak times at Nowhere 2008. This year was the first time we used a large 25kW gennie. The profit is low noise emission and easy handling through a robust machine and a large tank. The year before we used 2 x 6kW gennies in a hole which was pretty dangerous and loud. We spilled quite some oil during many refills.
Tim likes hybrid idea
Alan is in favour of hybrid as solar panels are getting cheaper all the time so this keeps our future options flexible. If we go out and say we need 24kw then that’s how much battery storage we need(Stefan says that is peak power).
Stefan: most of the power is lighting and we can reduce energy requirements by switching to LEDs. We could set up a budget for intelligent lighting and can use it to lower power consumption over the coming years.
Lee: you can rent equipment?
Stefan: Decent rentals are hard to find and very expensive in Spain. Transporting it there from other countries uses ressources again.
Massimo: or get it sponsored?
Tim: Buys tools cheap on ebay and gets them delivered.
Alan: if we build up tings like power storage potential first, then whatever generator we get can be added to it. No need to decide right now. The core is storage potential and the issue with that is where do we store it and how do we keep the batteries conditioned?
Tim has a place in Spain which could potentially be used for storage and conditioning batteries during the year.
Alan: 6kw block per module at 48v, so start with 24k on potential.
Stefan: We have 2 batteries on the milk float. (Later email contact with Polvo showed we have 2x 2V batteries left from the milk float. Capacity of the batteries unknown.)
Hattie: use a gas fridge
Claudi: These power requirements are Norg figures and includes the swiss camp but not other theme camps
Lee: Find some forward thinking energy company in Europe and see if they would donate equipment as a testing ground.
Maybe Schuko in Germany?
Massimo: Suggests integrating a carbon neutralisation price in to ticket price for Nowhere
Stefan: this is difficult when different people have travelled different distances to get there so it’s not fair to enforce this. Also we don't want to enforce anything.
Alan: we are not going as far now as we will skip bm and go to nowhere. so that’s reducing carbon straight away
As we get more money each year we will get better technology
Conclusion: The consensus is that the suggestion of focussing on building up a battery bank for power storage, while we all continue to research power source options is the most sensible way forward.
CONTACTS
Stefan: we need to look at all the contacts we have that might be able to help us out. We should focus on smaller companies.
Internal nowhere: we have to talk with Norg about integrating greening to Nowhere and see what they say
Local community contact, art and eco.
Alan met a Spanish guy from zaragoza in oslo who knows a lot
ACTION POINT: Alan to track this guy down
Tim has land in Spain. He and Stefan are thinking of setting up a not for profit organisation based in spain for that property and another option available to us is to use that nfp and it’s resources, as a resource for Nowhere / Norg? (or a theme camp within Nowhere).
EU – funding options for what’s called Intelligent Energy. Spain is very pro-active in this. Because we are people from all over Europe
Hattie: Big Green Gathering is totally green. All power sources are renewable. They have researched over 10 years. a) talk to them and find out who the groups that bring rigs there are and whether they’d come to Spain or can inform us.
Cara: I had a long conversation with the Green Roadshow people who run Croissant Neuf at Glastonbury and they have spent nearly 20 years building up resources to run a stage and lights on solar power alone. They said it would not be carbon effective to transport something like this to Spain for just one festival. Also v. expensive to amass the technology. They suggested using bicycle power.
Lee: rent a system? And a rig that you can take to other festivals
COST EFFECTIVE AND PRACTICAL WAYS TO PROCEED
Stefan says Tim has some land and we could use it as a base to set up a nfp organisation which could then be used for greening nowhere. We would like to explore this option. It is 8 miles from Reuz airport. He has a 15th century apartnment in the town where you can store stuff. Tim says all of these facilities could potentially be available for us to use. Its 150km awy from nowhere. It’s a 10E train ride from Barcelona and 15km from the coast
Tess: what do you want to happen there?
Tim: I’m not sure. I bought it with the idea it would a sustainable place. I’d like to provide that kind of place. He wants to put an eco camp together and feed people off the land. They get food and accommodation in return
At the moment 5 hectares of land is there.
Alan: battery and storage capacity should be a priority. Aim for 24kw.
Stefan: we want to power things far from the original source so we need intelligent batteries which are different sizes.
Alan: is looking into systems at the moment. Some lend themselves to wind. Found a 24 48v charger in the £1,000 range
The converter and inverter should do full 3 phase big grunty power.
Action point: Alan to continue to explore.
HOW TO ORGANISE US
Our options for mobilisation are:
We can be part of Norg and organise their power
We could form a theme camp/pueblo that is self serving
We could be a camp that gives power to Norg.
We could be a camp that collaborates with other camps in order to help them increase their sustainable power capacity
Tessa : last year when we did art grants, we suggested you had to think green in order to get funding and Norg said take this out as it’s not at the heart of their organisation. So being a separate body but closely related would be more appropriate then being norg. as an art person it would be great to be able to refer people to the green experts if artists did want to work out ways of making their projects more carbon neutral to compliment their leave no trace plans.
Stefan: we could provide batteries for art installations and other camps
Massimo: we could form a company and Nowhere would be a project for the company. This gets you round lots of legal problems. Good for taxes etc. We tie our mission statement to a very green focus. It will help sponsorship.
Claudi: it needs to be a not for profit.
Massimo: no. We can get donors. Spain will take 50% of donations if you are a nfp.
Claudi: we should bear this in mind but it’s a much further down the track.
Action point: Massimo to investigate further.
Stefan: we should have this in mind when talking to norg (how to organise)
Tess: working with norg gives us history and it would be easier for us to go as a sub group of nowhere, rather then an forming an independent youth organisation.
FUNDING AND HOW TO RELATED IT TO OUR STRUCTURE
Claudi: I have researched funding and there’s official form the EU and local gov’t but all of them demand certain structures within the organisation. To meet conditions coming for funding.
Stefan: so our options are
1) An NFP on our own in Spain (which might be being done anyway)
Tess: do we pitch that as a year round community?
2) use nowhere as an organisation to get funding;
Tess: if we do stuff as people who from different countries it has to be EU funding or Spanish funding (which i think is limited), because local funders will want the impact in their local community. We would need to pitch ourselves as self motivating culture or youth culture. and it’s about young people. That’s the best angle we’d go for. coz we’re not researchers are we? the British Council is the most likely to fund us. It’ eu money and you get 70% in advance, which is the most viable.. We need funders that want to work with small roots led organisations, otherwise we can’t hold the debt of projects where other funders will pay in arrears. The BC give you 10.000 E for an activity (including capital) – 70% of your travel costs as well. Need some Spanish people that live there to be part of it. The direction is art and community.
Tess: for a nfp: we need a board of directors with at least 3 people on it. If it’s a young person’s thing we need someone under 25 (NB all Eu funding is for nfp)
We Need a constitution
And a Mission statement:
Need to agree on:
How often people look at constitution (normally annually)
What you do if you dissolve (especially with your asses/capital)
We have to get other documents eg child protection statement
Have to do monthly accounts and have paper trail
At end of project and end of year you do annual accounts and an accountant signs it.
Directors and trustees have to based where ever you incorporate and meet once every quarter. You can have non UK directors too.
3) Massimo suggests being a company based in Spain
Rinne: the research is general, it is not Nowhere specific.
Alan: knows a lot of grounds we could approach this on.
Claudi: we need to have our pr image in mind in order to get grants to avoid headlines like ‘drug crazed hippies given EU money’
Tess: So maybe we need to be focussed on working within the community and sustaining the impact of Nowhere over the year
Alan: Also, if we can make this moblle it’s a Europe wide possibility.
Massimo: we can all go to our separate countries but nowhere can be one of our projects
Alan: Is the power in the art or the art in the power?
Note from Tall Tom, who is absent: He has offered to do fundraiser in Feb for us. All agree this is a brilliant ideas as any money will help us in lots of ways.
SPONSORSHIP OPTIONS
Whatever form we take, we can look at small companies in each of our respective countries for sponsorship.
Action point: Cara to chase Nowhere censuses to establish Nowhere attendees povs
Water
Claudi: how do we bring drinking waters to save plastic bottles ?
Alan: how do we stop people driving to collect water all the time?
Why can’t we get big water tanks (bowsers) for water.
Lee: purchase a 1000 gallon tank for tim’s land and drive it down for the week
Claudi: there may be hygiene issues
Showers:
Lee: in PEX we told people water for showers was included in camp dues. People were generating more waste. So now we include water in camp dues and that eliminated 80 to 100 gallons of waste. We make it deliberately a little difficult to have showers. There’s a 5 step system.
We pump grey water out through sacks of hay and another pump puts it up inot an evaporating tower. It evaps 50–60 gallons of water a day.
We have to buy more and more 55 gallon drums to transport water. Should you see if there’s a bowser.
Lee: has schematics for shower system. They won an award for best shower system at buring man this year. Will send through to us.
4 litres per person per day water should be enough
tess: We must remember its not appropriate to try and require other camps to act green, all we can do is to provide a model and some information and inspiration for other camps.
Alan: I see it as a werkhaus thing so I can shower if I come for 2 weeks. And I would do it
Cara: Would like to encourage Nowhere to think about switching from radical self reliance to radical co reliance because in reality it’s all about co operation anyway (with the individual taking responsibility for themselves) and any sustainability scheme realistically requires the community(s) to work together due to the high cost of green power.
Action point: Claudi: to ask Julio If he will investigate local water sources
Claudi: do we want to investigate if we feel responsible for water? A) as Norg b) As an independent entity
Cara: we could ask Norg if they’re interested in us looking into water – drinking or shower or both, and if so, on what basis. Then see if that basis suits us. Could also ask theme camps if they are interested in this idea also.
Claudi: to research cost. Maybe use Julio
Cara to put proposal to Norg and theme camps once we have more info.
Green members who are part of theme camps will do informal sounding out of theme camps to get reactions.
Stefan: Funding: the intelligent energy format. It’s a multimedia show abut green energy and they get funding for taking info to young people. Stefan has a contact who knows about writing proposals in Munich.
Action point: Stefan to research more. It’s another funding option. Need to investigate necessary organisational structure in order to set this up. And deadlines for applications.
Further POWER OPTION: Bio diesel generators to be used. Problem is sourcing vegetable oil – need to research.
Action point: Tim to research where buyBio diesel or better choice will be ex vegetable oil near Nowhere as it’s more environmentally friendly
Actoin Point: Claudi/ Juliio / Tim to research local sources.
Tim: can we rent and modify a genny.
Stefan: wants a decent generator. And can we bring down the power use at norg so that we can run it to our power.
Action point: Stefan to talk to Dave Bradshaw about how interested Norg might be in this option (buying a gennie and convert it to bio-diesel).
Mission statement suggestions or key points we feel are important to the greening of Nowhere:
To increase the sustainability of an event we feel passionate about and try and bring residual benefits to local communities in the process.
Make sure at all times we source items as close to Nowhere as possible
Try and encourage sustainable thinking within our community and offer knowledge, guidance and sexual favours
We want to be as effective as possible and have a preference to the more sustainable/greener goal.
We make the choices to use money to provide the highest quality service in electricity etc provision and that means figuring out what is realistic.
We are not green uber Alles. We will work with realistic and manageable steps in balance with eg what is cost effective and carbon efficient.
We don’t want to preach or advise other people what they should do. We lead by example where we can.
We could supply info for people who want to know how to reduce waste, we don’t preach (eg don’t’ use glowsticks).